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dog can talk... but does he say anything interesting? Sat, 16 Oct 2004 03:57:20 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.1.4 By: Michael Farris https://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-202 Sat, 16 Oct 2004 03:57:20 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-202 Tung, Nader is not running as a Green IIRC, and a presidential run is about the stupidest way possible of building viable third (or fourth etc) parties.
As far as I’m concerned, Nader is on the GOP payroll. If he thinks he isn’t, then he’s just more demented than I thought.
There are time and places for protest votes and the presidential votes of 2000 or 2004 are not the time or place.

]]> By: Tung Yin https://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-201 Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:26:36 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-201 My problem is actually with people sanctimonious enough to think they can get away with bitching about a second Bush term while still having not voted for Kerry. Unacceptable: if Bush is a problem for you, then you HAVE TO vote for Kerry– no excuses.
Well, I suppose I’m in this group, and I’m going to vote for Kerry very reluctantly. And I’ll be happy if he wins. However, on Jan. 20, 2005, I’ll probably be quite displeased with whatever Kerry decides to do.
Since I’m neither a D nor an R, I’m not sure it’s fair to say that I must vote for Kerry or forfeit any right to complain about Bush. It’s true that I had some say in the Democratic primary (and I caucused for Edwards, whom I’d be thrilled to vote for), but the Dems nominated a candidate that I find quite lame, for lack of a better word. Now I’m able to see that with Congress in the hands of the Rs, I’d rather see Kerry in the White House than Bush. But that’s just me. I’m not sure why someone who finds Kerry and Bush equally bad — and hence is bothered by four more years of Bush — is estopped from complaining if that person doesn’t vote for Kerry.

]]> By: the talking dog https://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-200 Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:59:40 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-200 It’s a free country; if Nader wants to run– and can even MAKE MONEY DOING IT (since the GOP is, frankly, paying him and paying him quite handsomely to do it), then GOOD FOR HIM.
My problem is actually with people sanctimonious enough to think they can get away with bitching about a second Bush term while still having not voted for Kerry. Unacceptable: if Bush is a problem for you, then you HAVE TO vote for Kerry– no excuses.
If Bush ISN’T a problem for you, then vote for whomever you like– be it Nader, the libertarian, the communist, or the Martian– or, hell, go ahead and vote for Bush for all I care.
That’s all I’m saying.

]]> By: Tung Yin https://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-199 Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:29:43 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-199 Voting for Nader is voting for Bush– in fact, its BETTER than voting for Bush
But this is true only if the voter would otherwise have voted for Kerry — and therefore is depriving Kerry of a vote. Based on your concession of voting for any third party candidate other than Nader, a person who votes for Nader but would vote for another protest candidate if not Nader would still not be voting for Kerry. So I’m afraid I don’t see it as a direct vote for Bush.
True, the GOP is supporting Nader, but that’s because it’s politically rationale for the GOP to do so. If Pat Buchanan were to run and have trouble qualifying, I have a hard time believing that the Democrats wouldn’t try to help him, for the same reasons.
As I say, I’m not voting for Nader, and I’m not defending Nader’s decision to run — which I think should be the real focus of your attacks — but I cut the Nader voters some slack.

]]> By: the talking dog https://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-198 Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:56:51 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-198 You can vote for any third-party you like– socialist workers, flat earthers, whatever. Even the Non-Nader Greens. I don’t really care.
But if you’re voting for Ralph Nader, whose campaign has been bought and paid for by various state GOPs, then you may as well vote for Bush, and no, you are not entitled to expiate youir guilt about not voting for the Democrat.
Ralph Nader is no longer a legitimate protest vote. Sorry if you feel differently– but there are many ways to express yourself. Voting for Nader is voting for Bush– in fact, its BETTER than voting for Bush– because you THINK you’re voting for Bush with a clear conscience– but you don’t deserve to, and in my book, no exoneration is forthcoming. EVER.
If Kerry wins, fine. If Bush wins, fine. But Nader voters don’t get to play innocent about either outcome. Maybe in 2000. But in ’04, if you don’t know better by now, you never will.

]]> By: Tung Yin https://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-197 Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:27:22 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-197 TD, while I’m not one who’s voting for Nader, I’m not sure it’s fair to tell Nader voters that they might as well vote for Bush. It’s true that the foreseeable effect of such votes, assuming that they could otherwise vote for Kerry, might be to get Bush re-elected.
But if you think of it from a long-term perspective, people disenchanted with the two-party system who nevertheless see the Dems as a little less bad than the Repubs might be willing to accept some short-term pain in order to hope for long-term gains.
I’m not a Green, so I’m not suggesting that I understand their point of view, but it seems plausible to me that a Green might think, “You’d think the Democratic Party would have gotten the message after 2000 that it needs to pay attention to us, but I guess not. It’s more of the same, another entrenched Party member, beholden to business, etc. I guess they need another lesson.”
Again, that’s not how I’m voting. But I think you do yourself and the Democratic Party a disservice not to try to understand why it is that some people would rather vote for Nader than Kerry, despite an apparent preference for Kerry over Bush. Understanding their concerns might make it possible to win some of their votes through an argument other than “you’re just getting Bush re-elected.”

]]> By: Kim Jong-Illin https://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-196 Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:03:08 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-196 Look for me in Team America out today. Very funny. Ha Ha Ha!!

]]> By: ImperialistRunningDog https://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-195 Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:37:50 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2004/10/15/in_the_you_can/#comment-195 Dream on!!!!

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