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Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:30:44 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.1.4 By: Lawrence https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1806 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:30:44 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1806 Geez, Diana, didn’t you get the part where the spousal notification law was limited to *notification* and didn’t require consent? And when babies start coming from the male prostrate, you’ll have a good analogy.

]]> By: diana https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1805 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:23:20 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1805 ” condition that only men could get (say, testicular cancer for example) were conditioned on the man giving notice to the wife that he was seeking treatment (because it might arguably interfere with her spousal conjugal rights, for example).”
We don’t even have to go that far (spousal conjugal rights).
As I understand Alito’s reasoning (ahem, I haven’t read the opinion so I’m really pulling this out of my blowhole) it’s based on the notion that the marital bond is unique, and creates a unique reciprocity between the two “contractors,” unlike any other contract.
OK, fine, that being the case, why not create a true equality and give women the right to veto a procedure that is unique to male biology, such as, for example, treatment for prostate or testicular cancer? Not because it violates her spousal rights. Just…because…she’s the wife, and she should have life and death power over her husband…just as he does over her life, in the event that she becomes pregnant…which is still a condition that entails risk.

]]> By: diana https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1804 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 23:26:56 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1804 ” This is because only a woman can beecome pregnant. It’s a great question– and it opens up a whole “equal protection” aspect that really hasn’t been considered, because the focus has been on the “privacy” aspect.”
Exactamundo!
“Brilliant”
Exactamundo!

]]> By: Lawrence https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1803 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 15:13:01 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1803 I thought we were both being reasonable and respectful. We disagree on a lot of things, TD, but I don’t think either one of us have given in to invective or hyperbole in any of our discussions.

]]> By: the talking dog https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1802 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 14:56:33 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1802 Hmmmm… actual evidence… A quick Google search seems to support the proposition enumerated by Lawrence. I guess if someone has contrary evidence… bring it on; until and unless, I stand corrected. (FWIW, these are actually my favorite kinds of comments– when I misstate something, and it can be shown so, as opposed to simple contradiction for the hell of it, although I do often enjoy that too. Anyway, thank you Lawrence, because I had heard that proposition enough times to believe it true, particularly as I’d never seen or heard it rebutted before.)
I suppose the immediate doctrinaire response is to point out that Bush Administration policies have made it harder for poor women to have access to abortions, and therefore, abortions are declining. The likelier reason, of course, is simply that there are broader social trends at work regardless of who resides in the White House, as unsatisfying as that is for those of us who’d rather blame Bush for everything!
Anyway, this comment thread strikes me as about as reasonable as the debate on Judge Alito is going to be; it won’t be long before invective and hyperbole take over completely.

]]> By: Lawrence https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1801 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 13:05:49 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1801 Thanks for clarifying that for me, TD. I think I understand now. Of course, there are a whole bunch of laws that some men find unjust (e.g. child support for children they did not actually father — truth is not a defense) but they’re deemed good public policy anyway. And you’re certainly right about the constitutionality of the law in Casey vis-a-vis Justice O’Connor.
But you’re not right here:
“Ironically, total abortions performed were going down during the Clinton years, and seem to be going back up in the Bush years.”
That’s not true: The Biography of a Bad Statistic. Abortions have actually decreased under Bush.

]]> By: the talking dog https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1800 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:50:29 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1800 Well, I think Diana has come up with a brilliant trick question: the only possible analog would be, of course, if the treatment of a medical condition that only men could get (say, testicular cancer for example) were conditioned on the man giving notice to the wife that he was seeking treatment (because it might arguably interfere with her spousal conjugal rights, for example). This is because only a woman can beecome pregnant. It’s a great question– and it opens up a whole “equal protection” aspect that really hasn’t been considered, because the focus has been on the “privacy” aspect.
As to whether the spousal notification provision is or is not unconstitutional, the Supreme Court held that it was (albeit with vigorous dissent). Obviously, such a decision is subject to reconsideration by the Supreme Court itself at a future term, which is pretty much where we are. FWIW, it was unconstitutional because Justice O’Connor said it was unconstitutional.
This is obviously the political hot button issue; a “resolution” would seem unlikely, no matter what the High Court does. Ironically, total abortions performed were going down during the Clinton years, and seem to be going back up in the Bush years.
Go figure.

]]> By: Lawrence https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1799 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:23:25 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1799 I’m not sure I understand the question, Diana.

]]> By: Lawrence https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1798 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:22:22 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1798 I don’t think this part is quite right:
“[The proposed law] would require married women to notify their husbands to obtain an abortion… not encourage it, or suggest it… but require it, even in the case of abusive or criminally abusive husbands.”
Unless I’m mistaken the law in question would have required notification (not consent) of spouses except for when “1) [The husband] is not the father of the child, (2) he cannot be found after diligent effort, (3) the pregnancy is the result of a spousal sexual assault that has been reported to the authorities, or (4) [the woman seeking an abortion] has reason to believe that notification is likely to result in the infliction of bodily injury upon her.”
Again, this may be bad policy, but the question was whether it was unconstitutional.

]]> By: diana https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1797 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:16:24 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/01/miers_regret/#comment-1797 “So, because Harry Reid had no abillity to impose discipline, or show any leadership at all, the right wing was allowed to eat Harriet Miers alive.”
I guess we see it differently, doggie. Reid was smart to let the right devour one of its own.
Now–if he can’t muster a disciplined opposition, I’ll say to hell with Reid. BTW I think he’s running for President (notice his website?), so this is what I’m basing my future vote on.
Regarding spousal notification and the constitution, Lawrence, if you can supply an example in which a man has comparable vulnerability to his wife, I’d appreciate it.

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