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Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:04:46 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.1.4 By: Lawrence https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1826 Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:04:46 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1826 They reports are not irrelevant to the charge of manipulation, Moomaw. They’re precisely on point. I don’t like to argue with idiots because people may not be able to tell the difference. So have at it, buddy. And for someone who can’t make his own argument (Andrew Sullivan says this, Andrew Sullivan says that) you’ve got a lot of nerve accusing others of parroting anyone.

]]> By: Bruce Moomaw https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1825 Sat, 19 Nov 2005 16:08:16 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1825 Read the fucking articles, Lawrence. I do not have time, and Seth doesn’t have the room, to include multiple paragraphs from each one on this site. The fact that you’re not willing to do so — at the same time that you parrot the official GOP talking points on the issue — proves, by itself, that you’re not just honestly mistaken but a deliberate charlatan, which means that I have no reason to waste any more of MY time debating you (if that’s the word for it). I will note, though, that you seem to have no response to my last note — which explains why those quotes you’ve been making from the Senate and Silberman Reports (also noted at length by the people I’m citing, as I said) are completely irrelevant.

]]> By: Lawrence https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1824 Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:44:42 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1824 Er, Lawrence. If you’d bother to read a single one of those entries
Hell no, I didn’t follow any of those links. If you can’t be bothered enough to put a few sentences together to make your own argument, why should I waste my time? Use links to support your arguments if you wish, but don’t be so lazy to use one (or 7!) standing alone and expect me to refute every frickin’ claim therein. Besides, 9 times out of 10 the article doesn’t say what is purported. So don’t waste my time.
…you would learn that the Senate Intelligence Committee report, the Robb-Siberman report, and those “hundreds of CIA analysts” never actually said anything remotely like what you (and the GOP spokesmen you’re echoing) have said they said.
Now you’re just being stupid. Both of those reports were bipartisan and contained interviews of hundreds of CIA analysts. Not one — not one! — said they were coerced or pressured in any way to change their judgments relating to Iraq. Those are direct quotes from the report I used above.
So do us a favor and actually READ them before opening your mouth again, eh?
Follow you’re own advice.
Incidentally, anyone who describes James Fallows as a leftist may be in serious need of medical attention
Fallows’ Bush Lied Us Into War charge clearly places him in left field on the war.
And the key line in his new piece is: “On available evidence, the President himself has not grasped the essential criticism of moving against Iraq when he did: that a war in Iraq undercut the broader and longer-term war against Islamic terrorism.”
That’s his opinion, and if that’s the “key line” in the piece, what does it have to do with manipulating intelligence? Talk about reading comprehension difficulties… You’re wasting my time!
the Administration deliberately and absurdly overplayed obviously non-credible intelligence supporting its case for an immediate invasion
That’s bullshit, and any reasonable person knows it. But by all means, keep up this line of attack. It can only help Republicans.

]]> By: Bruce Moomaw https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1823 Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:50:02 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1823 Maybe I should be a bit more explicit, if Lawrence really does have as much reading-comprehension difficulty as his last message suggests. All those sources I mentioned point out that the report quotes which Lawrence mentions — which almost all of them also explicitly quote — are totally irrelevant, because not one of those groups, by their own statement, were authroized to look into whether the Administration deliberately ignored or distorted the evidence that actually had been sent to them by various intelligence sources. And THAT is the main question: whether the Administration deliberately and absurdly overplayed obviously non-credible intelligence supporting its case for an immediate invasion — even when that intelligence was clearly recognizable as poppycock (as with the Yellowcake Memos) — while deliberately ignoring huge amounts of far more credible evidence against an immediate invasion.

]]> By: Lawrence https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1822 Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:55:04 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1822 Sure, Bruce. The Senate Intelligence Committee report, the Robb-Silberman report and the hundreds of CIA analysts who were interviewed on the matter are uttering nonsense while your lefty journalist and bloggers are speaking truth to power.
I’m convinced.

]]> By: Bruce Moomaw https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1821 Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:29:06 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1821 Lawrence, the Washington Post has pointed out in detail that you’re uttering nonsense ( http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/11/AR2005111101832_pf.html ); Mark Kleiman has pointed out in detail that you’re uttering nonsense (
http://markarkleiman.com/archives/lying_in_politics_/2005/11/secondorder_lying.php ); Josh Marshall has done so ( http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006933.php ; http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006935.php ); Larry Johnson has done so ( http://tpmcafe.com/story/2005/11/14/224550/85 ); Matt Yglesias has done so ( http://yglesias.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/11/11/131029/55 ), and now James Fallows has done so ( http://huffingtonpost.com/jim-fallows/what-bush-isnt-addressin_b_10621.html ). It may reasonably be concluded from their collection of evidence that you’re uttering nonsense.

]]> By: Dean https://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1820 Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:06:52 +0000 http://thetalkingdog.com/2005/11/13/i_was_wrong/#comment-1820 Don’t forget the atmosphere that prevailed in the two or three years immediately after 9/11. A politician had to agree with the administration line, or be branded ‘soft on terrorism’.

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