August 26, 2003, Lonesome Tears In My Eyes
In a never-ending cycle of miserable news, we learned that the list of victims of the UN bombing in Baghdad includes a very close friend of one of Mrs. TD's cousins, someone I had occasion to meet and found to be a very nice person who, quite frankly, the world will miss.
War. What the fuck is it good for? Absolutely fucking nothing. Not much else to say.
Comments
I am sorry to hear that. I agree, war does not achieve anything.
Posted by Camilo at August 27, 2003 08:34 AM
well, shit.
My condolences to Mrs. TD and family.
Posted by julia at August 27, 2003 01:28 PM
War does not achieve anything.
Except for defeating Nazism and Imperialist Japan, ending genocide in the Balkans, liberating Kuwait from Saddam and the creation and preservation (Civil War) of the greatest beacon of freedom the world has ever known. Other than that (a few examples among many), no, war never achieves anything.
Posted by Lawrence at August 27, 2003 05:55 PM
Camilo and Julia--
Thanks for your kind thoughts.
Lawrence,
I daresay, I don't mean to suggest for a second that we should adopt Tibetan defense strategies of... not having defenses. I note that Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy all had the poor sense to declare war on the United States first. The fact is, FDR and the rest of the American polity then were looking for reasons to stay OUT of WWII for as long as possible (meaning hopefully, altogether). Messrs. Tojo, Hitler and Mussolini gave us little choice in the matter, by respectively, attacking us and by declaring war on the United States.
As to liberating Kuwait from Saddam, I reserve judgment; it seems pretty clear to me that we have paid a very heavy price for our actions there (and we are still paying it), and I remain skeptical as to the benefits to the UNITED STATES from that particular adventure. Certainly, Kuwait is hardly a healthy, liberal democracy. Had Saddam invaded Saudi Arabia, after 9-11 I'm not convinced that would be all that worse then the House of Saud. In any event, the Gulf War I action was done with full international legal imprimatur, for a limited purpose,and we had a lot of help; further, you might have to say something nice about the United Nations, as that action was under UN mandate.
The Civil War was (1) a really long time ago, and (2) made a "war of liberation" some years into it. It was, as you know, actually a war to quell an internal insurrection, and again, was brought TO the United States by, in this case, rebellious Americans. Lincoln said it was about preserving the union; freeing slaves was (kind of like "liberating Iraq") an afterthought.
As to War in the Balkans, are you REALLY willing to give Bill Clinton credit for something? Be careful about that... it also might be contagious. It also makes General Clark look REALLY GOOD-- so be careful again!
I do not mean to denigrate this nation's need to defend itself, or in any manner to take anything away from the courageous and public spirited men and women who volunteer to defend this country (including you). Far from it.
You all have my unlimited admiration, and thanks.
I DO mean to denigrate the leadership of this nation's need to break all the rules on which this nation is based, and act like the folks mentioned in the first paragraph. You of all people know that war is deadly serious shit. When instituted by a leadership that behaves little better than clowns for anything other than the most dire and abject necessity, and people get killed in the process, I submit to you: what the *&^% is such a war good for? And I repeat: absolutely nothing.
Posted by the talking dog at August 27, 2003 07:12 PM
TD:
I understand the important differences between the war in Iraq and the ones I cited above, but I wasn’t arguing the case for preemptive war. I know that opinions differ on that. My comment was in reply to the unconditioned claim that “war never achieves anything.”
As to liberating Kuwait from Saddam, I reserve judgment...
Besides the obvious benefits to Kuwaitis, the US also benefited by not having a mass-murdering dictator siezing 10% of the world’s oil reserves, using that wealth to further build-up his military strength and casting an envious eye toward Saudi Arabia after being emboldened by his success in Kuwait. Those aren’t abstract benefits, they’re very real.
Certainly, Kuwait is hardly a healthy, liberal democracy.
As you later say, Gulf War I had a limited purpose. The mandate was to drive Iraq out of Kuwait, not install a democratic government. The reason Saddam remained in power after that war is only because the coalition that was put together demanded it. A lot of lives might’ve been saved if we had been allowed to solve the problem then. I don’t have many nice things to say about that.
As to War in the Balkans, are you REALLY willing to give Bill Clinton credit for something?
I don’t know why I wouldn’t as I supported that action.
I DO mean to denigrate the leadership of this nation's need to break all the rules on which this nation is based, and act like the folks mentioned in the first paragraph.
I don’t see how we’re acting like Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan or Fascist Italy. I supported the war for three reasons: 1) national security; 2) violations of UN sanctions; and 3) humanitarian concerns. Of course war should always be the last resort, but I didn’t see any alternative that would’ve had even a reasonable chance of solving the Saddam problem.
You may disagree that we have made ourselves any safer, and that’s a fair argument, though I think we have, but it’s undeniable that the war put an end to a regime that the UN says 300,000 Iraqis went missing under during its rule. I say this with regret that your family lost a friend, but I think the war was justified.
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