the talking dog

It's Texas on the Tigris as Presidentissimo Bush has announced that former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein will face the death penalty, when he is duly tried by a kangaroo court set up by the provisional illegitimate puppet government set up by the American aggressors and occupiers. Rule 1 is to make this shit look good. The Bush Administration doesn't bother with niceties like what the rest of the world will think, or following international, or for that matter, American law. So why should the man who was governor of a state that conducted more executions in his state than any other governor in American history (as well as the President who oversaw the first executions by the federal government in decades) not call for the "ultimate penalty" against his family's longstanding enemy? You got me.

The problem is... as always... we're the hyperpower now. We are supposed to honor international norms because one of these days, it will be our citizens-- maybe even our leaders-- that are in the hands of a foreign entity, and maybe then we'd wonder why we were so damned flippant with due process and all back in the day when we had the mantle of power...

Don't get me wrong-- I think its too bad Saddam was caught by us, and not by a rampaging Shiite mob who might have dismembered him on the spot, or inflicted some other Ceauciescieu (is that how you spell it?) type ending. But we caught him, and God damn it, we're stuck with our laws-- even if our President finds them inconvenient.

In short-- in this situation, the United States remains responsible for everything that happens in Iraq. The puppet Iraqi Governing Council represents our interests (and presumably those of Kissinger & Associates, Mr. Bremer's regular employer), not those of the Iraqi people or nation. To get that kind of government, we need an election, of the kind we're afraid to have because we have no assurances that people we like will win. That said-- Saddam cannot be legitimately tried "by the Iraqi people" until a legitimate Iraqi government comes into being. Period.

As far as I'm concerned, until then, if he is executed by such a "court", it would be little better than an execution conducted under his regime. Or, we can hand him over to an international tribunal right now (though such a tribunal would doubtless take the death penalty off the table, which is why we won't).

Yeeeee haaaaahhh!!!

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Comments

TD, instead of arguing against applying the death penalty to Saddam, you should be proposing the means of execution. After all, this was a guy who killed people in many nasty different ways.
Perhaps you should start a contest with the cleverest way to dispatch saddam.

Posted by Jake at December 17, 2003 05:08 PM

Perhaps we could put him in a menage a trois to the death with Hillary Clinton and Madeline Albright. That's worse than the Russian front, Hogan.

Posted by Muggsy at December 17, 2003 07:21 PM

Why don't we just give SADDAM a fucking parade.

He committed GENOCIDE!!!

Posted by Castor Troy at December 17, 2003 07:51 PM

TWO WAYS TO LOOK AT IT.

ONE: There is crime and there is punishment and the death penalty is acceptable for mass murder/genocide for reasonable people in a reasonable society. Consider TED BUNDY or PAUL HILL.

TWO: You are a mamby pamby spineless piece of shit loser who has the blood of all of SADDAM'S victim on your hands.

WHICH ARE YOU??????

Posted by Castor Troy at December 17, 2003 08:01 PM

Why do the Jewish liberals defend Saddam and yet always vow "never again" when refers to the concentration camps. Are the Kurds less a victim than the Jews in WWII?

Posted by othon prounis at December 17, 2003 09:37 PM

Reminds me of Nixon almost causing a mistrial in the Manson trial when the little twerp (Manson, not Nixon) showed the jury the front page of the LA Times with the headline: "NIXON: 'MANSON IS GUILTY!'" It just shows that presidential stupidity is not limited to the first 3 years of the 21st Century.

Posted by moonbatsnwingnuts at December 17, 2003 10:33 PM

Once again: are we, or are we NOT, BETTER than Saddam? Because it seems to me that you bloodthirsty characters have no problem in behaving just like him, in which case, let's all be honest, the "crime" he will be punished for... is losing the war.

Posted by the talking dog at December 18, 2003 02:24 AM

""NOT, BETTER than Saddam""

First, why is thetalkingdog posting here, he has the website.

Second, just because you are better than someone, and not a killer, you still need punishment. I ask once again, what is the penalty for GENOCIDE.

HITLER, POL POT, SADDAM.!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Castor Troy at December 18, 2003 10:49 AM

Hey Castor Troy,
You can't skip a day on that type of
medication.

Posted by Muggsy at December 18, 2003 11:56 AM

Is a swift, painless death a greater punishment than years in a concrete box knowing you will never get out?

Is a lynching justice?

Knowing that he is going to be executed regardless, there is no incentive for Saddam to cooperate to reduce the violence in Iraq or to provide information about his associates.

Posted by Bryan at December 18, 2003 01:43 PM

TD, how is the Iraqi tribunal a violation of due process? Is it because, in your eyes, the IGC is nothing more than a "puppet" of the US government? In what way, acceptable to you, can the Iraqi people try Saddam in Iraq for the crimes he committed against them? Why should they have to turn over Saddam to a white Western judicial entity (The Hague, the ICC...) that never lifted more than a finger to bring him to justice in the first place? What's your legal argument that Iraq shouldn't have jurisdiction?

I notice that those who are worrying most for Saddam's rights are the same ones who didn't want the coalition to depose him in the first place. I bet that's what Iraqis are noticing too.

Posted by Lawrence at December 18, 2003 02:09 PM

""You can't skip a day on that type of
medication.""

I AGREE. THAT IS WHY I NEVER MISS A DAY OF MEDICATION.

AND WHAT TYPE OF MEDICATION DO I USE:

IT IS CALL THE TRUTH, REALITY, WHAT IS RIGHT, LOGIC. ETC.

VENGEANCE IS MINE, SAYETH THE VICTIMS OF GENOCIDE

Posted by Castor Troy at December 18, 2003 03:00 PM

Lawrence--

Excellent point-- although I don't really argue that we can't give the Baghdad Butcher "due process"; if we wanted to, I'm sure we could.

I just don't think we want the whole can of worms right now: until the formal transfer of sovereignty, as the occupying power, we're responsible for the place. The IGC, though swarthy "Iraqis", are merely agents of the White people who invaded the place.

Sure, President (for Life?) Chalabi might ratify the IGC actions after "sovereignty"-- but UNTIL he does, I don't think we have ANY basis to say that "the Iraqi people" are trying him.

Posted by the talking dog at December 18, 2003 05:15 PM

If I understand you correctly, there is nothing that the IGC or any multi-ethnic judicial panel in Iraq could possibly do to satisfy your concerns about the fairness of a trial until complete sovereignty is restored; ipso facto, they would be mere agents of the US.

It could be years before that happens, and I don't believe that even then skepticism such as yours will be alleviated. Those who opposed regime change in the first place will still look at the new government as illegitimate, whether the US has a presence in the country or not. If you'll pardon my saying, I don't see why the Iraqis should have to jump through hoops only to satisfy the eternally concerned. Justice delayed is justice denied.

Lastly, trying him in The Hague may be preferable to you and like-minded people, but ordinary Iraqis probably look upon that European body with even greater skepticism than you look upon the IGC. I think their worries are of greater concern. An open trial in Iraq by a multi-ethnic panel of judges is, in my opinion, the best solution and is far more than Saddam deserves.

Posted by Lawrence at December 18, 2003 10:45 PM

TD, you certainly have a point regarding the legitimacy (illegitimacy) of the IGC. Lawrence is apparently lost in the rhetoric of ideology. Al Sistani has already declared the IGC an illegitimate governing body, as has about every Iraqi in the country. Perhaps if Lawrence conversed a bit more with Iraqi citizens and listened to less of the polymorphic rantings of the Bush administration, the light of day might shed itself on the darkness of his politics.

Chalabi and the other sock puppets of the IGC are de facto Iraqi expatriates, most having lived elsewhere in the world for the last few decades, and having no clue as to the realities of life for the average Iraqi. Iraqis do not accept their authority as legitimate.

Res Ipsa Loquitur.

Lawrence’s fears that it may be years before a proper judicial panel could be formed in Iraq may contain some basis in fact and I may even tend to agree with him on that issue - but for different reasons. The U.S.-led occupation is not going to turn Iraq over to native Iraqis for fear, and a just fear I might add, that Iraq will not become the pro-Israel Democracy that President Miserable Failure is demanding of it.

What to do with Saddam? I’m not quite sure yet but it’s equally obvious that this administration doesn’t know either. This is yet another example of a total lack of a clue as to post-war planning. Saddam was never expected to be taken alive -there was no contingency for this.

And President National Embarrassment damned sure doesn’t want a public trial wherein Saddam would be allowed to speak. Maybe he could tell us about Reagan sending Donald Rumsfeld to Iraq in the 80s and coddling up to him as an ally against Iran. Maybe he could tell us where he got the chemicals he used on the Iranians and then the Kurds - and who supplied the satellite target coordinates for him.

As to the posters demanding Saddam be dragged through the streets, then publicly lynched, drawn and quartered, shot, and then hanged - in the aggregate they have the intelligence of a head of lettuce and the rule of law is completely lost on them. So, I won’t waste my time trying.

Posted by Little Neutrino at December 19, 2003 09:34 AM

It's rather telling that someone who accuses me of being "lost in the rhetoric of ideology" finds it perfectly natural to refer to Bush as "President National Embarrassment" and "President Miserable Failure" while alluding to the "darkness of [my] politics."

Little Neutrino claims that members of the IGC are "sock puppets" and de facto expatriots who have "no clue as to the realities of life for the average Iraqi." Would that be Naseer Al-Chaderchi, a lawyer who lived in Iraq throughout Saddam’s regime? Or Mohsen Abdel Hamid, the Secretary General of the Iraqi Islamic Party, the Iraqi branch of the Muslim Brotherhood? Or Dara Noor Alzin, a judge who was released from one of Saddam's prisons in 1992 after being jailed for ruling that one of his edicts on confiscating land was unconstitutional? Or Raja Habib Al-Khuzaai, who's lived in Iraq since 1977 and headed a maternity hospital in the eastern Dyala province? Or Wael Abdul Latif, another Iraqi judge who has served time in one of Saddam's prisons? I could go on, but what's the point? I've little doubt that your mind's already made up. It would be interesting to hear, however, who you would've tapped to help start Iraq's new government.

Also, I don't think it's Rumsfeld who is afraid of what beans might be spilled about where Saddam has been getting his WMD materials. See Paris. But the only point I was making in the first place is that Saddam's trial should be held in Iraq by Iraqis. I think it should be an open trial and let the chips fall where they may. What's wrong with that? Let go of the bitterness, Neutrino.

Posted by Lawrence at December 19, 2003 11:10 AM

Bitterness? You don’t know a God-damned thing about bitterness. These are my friends dying for your pathetic political goals and I’d be willing to bet January’s combat pay that you’d shit your pants the first time you heard a bullet pass by your head. And that would only be if you grew a pair of balls to do anything other than run your mouth in the first place.

Your cowardice and stupidity aside -

I would be interested to know where you are getting your information from, but it serves as prime example of your American belligerence. You, as an American who has never been to or probably ever known someone from Iraq, refer to Mohsen Abdel Hamid as the Secretary General of the Iraqi Islamic Party, the Iraqi branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now that’s interesting because Iraqis view him as “The Puppet: Mohsen Abdul Hamid
The secretary of the Islamic Party- a Sunni fundamentalist Islamic group (a branch of the Islamic Brotherhood). Yet another fundamentalist group, but this one was chosen to keep the Sunni fundamentalists quiet.

Rather than hold your hand and walk you down the path - here are the IGC members and how they are viewed by Iraqis, (Note - the use of the word “puppet” is left from the original text as typed by an honest-to-God Iraqi who actually lives in Iraq) :

The Puppet: Ibraheim Al-Jaffari
56-year-old head of the Islamic Daawa party who was living in Iran and London.
The Al-Daawa Islamic Party debuted in 1958 as the most prominent Shi’’a political movement. Al-Daawa ‘‘activists’’ learned their techniques from an extremist Iranian group known as ‘‘Fida’’yeen El-Islam’’ and were distinctive for their use of explosives to make political statements. Universities, schools and recreational centers were often targets.

Ibraheim Al-Jaffari makes me uncomfortable. He isn’’t very direct or coherent. He speaks in a suspiciously low voice and has a shifty gaze that never seems to settle on the camera.

The Puppet: Ahmad Al-Chalabi
This guy is a real peach. He is the head of the Iraqi National Congress and heavily backed by the Pentagon. He was a banker who embezzled millions from the Petra Bank in Jordan. My favorite part of his life story is how he escaped from Jordan in the trunk of a car…… a modern-day Cleopatra, if you will. When asked if he thinks the war on Iraq was justified, even if WMD aren’’t found, he immediately (and rather huffily) replies, “Of course- *I* wouldn’’t be sitting here in Iraq if it weren’t for the war……” As if he’’s God’’s gift to humanity. He’s actually America’s gift to the Iraqi people- the crowning glory of the war, chaos and occupation: the looter of all looters.

The Puppet: Iyad Allawi
A former Iraqi intelligence officer, and former Ba’ath member, who was sent to London on a scholarship from the former Ba’athist government. Rumor has it that when the scholarship ran out, he denounced his Ba’ath membership and formed the Iraqi National Accord. He has been living in London ever since 1971.
The Puppet: Jalal Talabani
Head of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK). The PUK controls the southeastern part of the autonomous Kurdish area in the north. Scintillating rumor on the street: before he became a ‘‘leader’’, he had a nightclub in Turkey where he was running an illegitimate…… umm…… we’ll call it an ‘‘escort service’’. The truth is that he is the rival of Massoud Berazani, the other leader in the autonomous Kurdish region and their rivalry would often lead to bloodshed between their supporters. His famous quote: “Politics is a whore”.

“The Puppet: Abdul Aziz Al-Hakim
Deputy leader of SCIRI (Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq). He has been in Iran for decades and is the commander of ‘‘Badir’’s Army’’ or what is also known as the Badir Brigade- responsible for a lot of the post-war chaos. The frightening thing is that there are rumors of negotiations between SCIRI and the CPA about allowing the Brigade to be in charge of ‘‘security’’ in some regions.

The Puppet: Adnan Al-Pachichi
A Sunni Arab who is- brace yourself- 81 years old (some say it’s 84). He was foreign minister for 2 years in the ‘60s. My grandfather remembers him *vaguely*. I’’m sorry, but he just looks too weary to be running Iraq. It will be amazing if he makes it to elections. He has been outside of Iraq ever since the late ‘‘60s and seems to know as little about modern Iraq as the Iraqis know about him.

The Puppet: Mohammed Bahr Ul Iloom
Otherwise known as ‘‘Mohammed Bahr Ul- who???’’ Very few people seem to have heard of him. He is a Shi’a Muslim cleric who fled Iraq in 1991. He was in exile in London. He is also in his 80s and his only political qualification seems to be the fact that he fled and considered himself in exile. He promptly squelched any chance he had at gaining popularity by being the one selected to declare April 9 the Iraqi National Day.

The Puppet: Massoud Berezani
The head of the Kurdistan Democratic Party and rival of Jalal Talabani. He was backed by the US in north Iraq. His conflicts with Talabani have resulted in the deaths of thousands of Kurds in bloody battles and assassinations and the exile of others. To see them sitting at the same table, staring adoringly at ‘‘Father Bremer’’, you would think they had always been the best of friends- it’s a fascinating lesson in politics. A question poses itself: if they couldn’t control a few provinces in the north, how do they expect to be able to govern all of Iraq?

The two Kurdish leaders also control an armed militia known as ‘‘Bayshmarga’’. The Bayshmarga are multi talented. They act as bodyguards, and smugglers. They were caught smuggling cars, currency and artifacts. These last two days there have been clashes between them and the Turkomen in Kirkuk.

The most infuriating thing is hearing Bremer talk about how the members of the rotating presidency represent the Iraqi people. In reality, they represent the CPA and Bremer. They are America’’s Puppets (some of them are Iran’s). They do not govern Iraq or Iraqis in any way- they are merely very highly paid translators: Bremer gives the orders and they translate them to an incredulous public. The majority of them were trained using American tax dollars, and now they are being ‘‘kept’’ by the CPA using Iraqi oil money.

Posted by Little Neutrino at December 19, 2003 11:56 AM

Okay - I've calmed down. Sorry, when some moron starts acting like he actually has a grasp - and the only thing he does have is an opinion - I tend to get pissed.

The 9 Iraqi's previously posted are the rotating Presidents currently running America's 51st state.

Anyone claiming these folks actually represent anyone in Iraq are simply delusional.

I can only recommend that you don't believe everything you hear - and don't believe anything coming from this administration regarding Iraq.

Remember folks - we're in Iraq to find WMD! The nuclear threat. Remember that in 2004.

Posted by Little Neutrino at December 19, 2003 12:22 PM

And that would only be if you grew a pair of balls to do anything other than run your mouth in the first place. Your cowardice and stupidity aside -

I'm sorry, I thought I was writing to a rational person, which you clearly are not. Why do you presume to know anything about me; where I've been or what my experiences are?

Here's a bio of 24 members of the IGC. Hardly all the "puppets" you and your "honest-to-God Iraqi" portray them to be. And you still have no opinion on how it could be done better? Maybe that's the thing; you believe the war was wrong and therefore everything that happens from here on out is wrong. Res Ipsa Loquitur, indeed.

Yeah, I have an opinion, and I'm not afraid to put my real name beside it. I wonder if you truly feel that Iraq was better off under Saddam? For the record, I supported the war on three grounds: 1) the threat to our national security; 2) enforcement of UN sanctions; and 3) humanitarian reasons. Reasonable people can disagree about whether the first was justified and whether the second merited the response we gave it, but the third is where the anti-war argument doesn't stand up.

Anyway, I feel no need to debate someone who is only hurling ad hominems, so fire away, "marine", and feel free to keep thinking that you actually know what's in the heart of every Iraqi.

Posted by Lawrence at December 19, 2003 12:57 PM

I probably deserved that - like I said - these are my friends being killed here - but I need to remain focused and calm. Yeah, right.

I’m aware of the American-written bios of the IGC - written by Americans for Americans - and apparently believed by some Americans...but not by Iraqis. The validity of my previous post stands - that is how Iraqis view the 9-member rotating Presidency. You can believe it or not - it doesn't alter the reality.

I’m sorry, I thought I was writing to a rational person, which you clearly are not. Why do you presume to know anything about me; where I've been or what my experiences are?

If you mistook me as a rational person, that’s your deal - not mine. I never offered that up as a platform. I can read your post and pretty much assess where you’re coming from - and most of it isn’t rational. For you to even assume you can make a judgement on a country you’ve never visited and know nothing about speaks directly to the sheer audacity of a blind belief system, bankrupt of any remainder of moral fiber.

Yeah, I have an opinion, and I'm not afraid to put my real name beside it.

Of course you aren’t - and you probably don’t have a clue as to why anyone would believe any differently than yourself.

Your first basis for war in Iraq is flawed (the threat to our national security) - the remainder therefore becomes fruit of the poisonous tree, so to speak. If you truly believe Iraq was a threat to the national security of the United States - then I am the one who is mistaken. I thought I was writing to a sane and rational person and obviously I’m not.

Any of this sound familiar:

"The Iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten America and the world with horrible poisons and diseases and gases and atomic weapons."
–– George Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in a speech in Cincinnati.

"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program ... Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." –– President Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in Cincinnati.

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." –– President Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address.

"We believe [Saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." –– Vice President Cheney on March 16, 2003 on "Meet the Press."

"[The CIA possesses] solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda going back a decade." –– CIA Director George Tenet in a written statement released Oct. 7, 2002 and echoed in that evening's speech by President Bush.

"We've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases ... Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints." –– President Bush, Oct. 7.

"We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles] for missions targeting the United States." –– President Bush, Oct. 7.

"We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they're weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established." –– President Bush, Feb. 8, 2003, in a national radio address.

"Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets." –– Secretary of State Colin Powell, Feb. 5 2003, in remarks to the UN Security Council.

"We know where [Iraq's WMD] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat." –– Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, March 30, 2003, in statements to the press.

"Yes, we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited." –– President Bush in remarks in Poland, published internationally June 1, 2003.

"There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein has biological weapons and the capability to rapidly produce more, many more, and he has the ability to dispense these lethal poisons and diseases in ways that can cause massive death and destruction. Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical-weapons agent. We have no indication that Saddam Hussein has ever abandoned his nuclear weapons program." - Colin Powell on Fox News Sunday, June 8, 2003.

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." - Dick Cheney, Speech to VFW National Convention, August 26, 2002.

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons." - George W. Bush, Speech to UN General Assembly, September 12, 2002.

"We know for a fact that there are weapons there (Iraq)." - Ari Fleischer, Press Briefing, January 9, 2003.

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent." - George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, January 28, 2003.

"We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more." - Colin Powell, Remarks to UN Security Council, February 5, 2003.

"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have." - George W. Bush, Radio Address, February 8, 2003.

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." - George W. Bush, Address to the Nation, March 17, 2003.

"Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly...all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes." -Ari Fleisher, Press Briefing, March 21, 2003.

"There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And...as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them." - Gen. Tommy Franks, Press Conference, March 22, 2003.

"I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction." - Defense Policy Board member Kenneth Adelman, Washington Post, p. A27, March 23, 2003.

"One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites." - Pentagon Spokeswoman Victoria Clark, Press Briefing, March 22, 2003.

"Obviously the administration intends to publicize all the weapons of mass destruction U.S. forces find - and there will be plenty." - Neocon scholar Robert Kagan, Washington Post op-ed, April 9, 2003.

"But make no mistake -- as I said earlier -- we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about. And we have high confidence it will be found." - Ari Fleischer, Press Briefing, April 10, 2003.

"We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so." - George W. Bush, Remarks to Reporters, May 3, 2003.

"I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now." - Colin Powell, Remarks to Reporters, May 4, 2003.

"Given time, given the number of prisoners now that we're interrogating, I'm confident that we're going to find weapons of mass destruction." - Gen. Richard Myers, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, NBC Today Show interview, May 26, 2003.

"Increasingly, we believe that the United States may well become the target of those activities." - Dick Cheney, Meet The Press, September 8, 2002.

"We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." - Condoleezza Rice,CNN, September 8, 2002.

Yeah - we keep track. And that's only a partial list. *chuckle*

You’ll have to show me the vast humanitarian effort that was attempted by President Miserable Failure and those perverted lunatics that follow his path.

I agree - there's no reason to continue this debate.

Posted by Little Neutrino at December 19, 2003 01:47 PM

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about Little Neutrino, you REMF. Let me guess, you're a reservist -- it's always a reservist. Fuck off!

Posted by Lawrence at December 20, 2003 10:53 PM

Uh, that wasn't me in the previous post. It was my friend Travis, who's at my place at the moment and is apparently too stupid to change the presets to his own name and email address. Trav is a former marine who obviously doesn't share Neutrino's perspective. Anyway, he just told me what he wrote here and I wanted to set the record straight that I didn't write that. I can do a lot better than simply using the f-word to make a point.

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