May 11, 2004, What Can You Say?
I can't say a God damned thing about the execution of American Nicholas Berg by masked Islamic killers, which has been a much requested video (if you're interested, somewhere on the Yahoo! link I gave you probably has it; or try here; I'm not interested and haven't looked).
Well, its Daniel Perle redux, probably by the same group of people, only instead of asking the victim to identify himself as "Jew" before killing him, the merely asked him to identify himself as "American" before beheading him, on camera. The killers made clear that they had offered to trade him (for Abu Ghraib prisoners) and that this was in direct retaliation for the prisoner abuse thing ("developing"). This one was linked to Zarqawi-- remember him? The guy that Bush WAS TOO BUSY TO GET, despite the military begging Bush for authority to take him out... THREE TIMES.
Nicholas Berg's blood is on the hands of a lot of Americans: he was held by the military for some reason, then released and promptly grabbed by the Islamists. And lest we forget how quickly the President and SecDef stepped forward to... give each other blow jobs.
And of course, one fears that there may be a wave of these sorts of things in retaliation for the humiliation we have heaped upon Iraqis, between 60% (General Taguba estimate) and 90% of whom (Red Cross estimate) were completely innocent of anything, except being outside when American troops needed to meet their "interrogation quotas" (remind anyone of say, a certain Central European country in say, the middle third of the twentieth century?)
Well, now we have some more pictures that will drown everything else out-- the horrible pictures of the execution of Mr. Berg, that will doubtless make many Americans even more self-righteous about how all the Iraqis are swarthy Arabs anyway, had it coming (this means you, Senator Inhofe, you buffoon and fiend, who I hope something bad happens to; ditto Rummy, Cheney, and especially the President). You see, we execute people privately, and then have the perps apologize to Congressman or kings of neighboring countries-- so we're better than them (you know what-- Lieberman-- I hope something bad happens to you too; and I've decided to remove Al Gore's "sainted" moniker just for having picked you as a running mate). This leaves only the sainted John McCain as worthy of that, and this week, he has showed us WHY he is the only politician to bear the honorific "the sainted". But why is it the only Republican who would dare go after Rummy for dishonoring this country (and frankly, threatening its continuing existence-- and yes its that bad) is the one who had to spend 5 1/2 years HIMSELF being tortured as a prisoner of war? Fucking maddening.
Recall how after 9-11 the President urged Americans to be nice to Arabs, while simultaneously repeating 9-11, 9-11, fear, fear, swarthy terrorists, swarthy terrorists, and then Iraq, Al qaeda, 9-11, Saddam, Al Qaeda 9-11, until most of this country believed (probably still do) that Iraq and 9-11 are somehow related. Well-- the military got the message: TORTURE THESE PEOPLE WITH IMPUNITY. No reason. Just policy.
Unfortunately, it looks like "our enemies" just got the same memo. God damn it all.
Comments
You're right about U.S. soldiers in Iraq thinking that they're avenging 9/11. An article in the Guardian last week commented on that.
Posted by Megan Rose at May 12, 2004 12:00 AM
Nicholas Berg's blood is on the hands of a lot of Americans. The part that really pisses me off, though, is that I cannot feel even the tiniest bit morally superior to the reprobates that beheaded this innocent man; similarly immoral acts were done to the kith and kin of the Berg's killers.
Dammit! Rumsfeld's complete lack of moral accountability has stained our entire nation.
Posted by dog 2 at May 12, 2004 06:10 AM
I can feel morally superior to the reprobates, dog 2; the problem is that I can't claim that my moral superiority has anything to do with my country's actions in the world. Must be something to do with my religious upbringing.
I agree, TD, that the future of America is threatened. And I think it is clear who are responsible. If you can justify lying to obtain authority to unleash the horrible power of warfare, what can't you justify? Our "religious" president and his "conservative" henchmen are revealed for the morally bereft radicals that they are. They're on a crusade--what does the moral high ground have to do with it?
Posted by mamayo at May 12, 2004 01:44 PM
Hey Dog2. What do you mean "blood on the hands of many Americans" paleface.
Posted by Chief Sitting This One Out at May 12, 2004 05:02 PM
Nick Berg was selected. Learn why.
America, reap the harvest you have sown.
Posted by Joe Blow at May 12, 2004 10:42 PM
Seems odd to me how someone who "can't say a G** Damned thing" about this somehow manages to spew the standard left-wing party line throughout the next six paragraphs, yammering on in the same old tiresome (and equally groundless) rhetoric of the rest of your democrat comrades.
How one person can totally bend - and often manufacture - "facts" to meet their own personal political agenda is simply amazing. And frightening.
If I want to read tripe like this in the future I'll just check out the CNN (as in Clinton News Network) website. At least there this crap is expressed in a somewhat coherent manner.
Posted by UNeedAClue at May 13, 2004 01:09 AM
Oh please, let us run away and hide now! Let us get out of the middle east and leave these poor peaceful, rational and loving people alone! How could we have so "brutally" invaded and "conquered" such a wonderful and innocent country such as Iraq. Things were so good before the evil Americans came. All the Iraqis were happy and living in such peace and tranquility. The Iraqi women never had it so good. Even Saddam liked us and he proved it in so many ways. That damned Bush. He ruined everything and all in the name of oil. Just look how low our gas prices are from all the oil we are stealing from those poor Iraqis. That damn Bush even had that poor soul beheaded. He was under that mask ya know. That tyrant even put womens panties on captured "innocent" Iraqi prisoners' heads, GASP! Not the unspeakable, cruel and unusual PANTY torture. "TORTURE THESE PEOPLE WITH IMPUNITY! LOL!!! So dramatic, give me a break.
Yes, now we must run away! Oh please mean terrorists, we are sooo sorry for having offended thee. Maybe these peaceful loving people of Allah will leave us alone if we just scurry away and hide under some rock. Maybe they will even start to like and accept us. Oh, please I hope so! I so want to be accepted. If not, maybe the honest and forthright Russians, Germans and French can save us damn meddling Americans. Or maybe even the effcient and all powerful United Nations will wave their magic UN wand.
Sigh!!! Just so easy to sit back, blame and criticize, isn't it? Yet, so difficult to actually DO something about it!
Posted by Malpa at May 13, 2004 02:28 AM
Oh please, let us run away and hide now! Let us get out of the middle east and leave these poor peaceful, rational and loving people alone! How could we have so "brutally" invaded and "conquered" such a wonderful and innocent country such as Iraq. Things were so good before the evil Americans came. All the Iraqis were happy and living in such peace and tranquility. The Iraqi women never had it so good. Even Saddam liked us and he proved it in so many ways. That damned Bush. He ruined everything and all in the name of oil. Just look how low our gas prices are from all the oil we are stealing from those poor Iraqis. That damn Bush even had that poor soul beheaded. He was under that mask ya know. That tyrant even put womens panties on captured "innocent" Iraqi prisoners' heads, GASP! Not the unspeakable, cruel and unusual PANTY torture. "TORTURE THESE PEOPLE WITH IMPUNITY! LOL!!! So dramatic, give me a break.
Yes, now we must run away! Oh please mean terrorists, we are sooo sorry for having offended thee. Maybe these peaceful loving people of Allah will leave us alone if we just scurry away and hide under some rock. Maybe they will even start to like and accept us. Oh, please I hope so! I so want to be accepted. If not, maybe the honest and forthright Russians, Germans and French can save us damn meddling Americans. Or maybe even the effcient and all powerful United Nations will wave their magic UN wand.
Sigh!!! Just so easy to sit back, blame and criticize, isn't it? Yet, so difficult to actually DO something about it!
Posted by Malpa at May 13, 2004 02:28 AM
Oh please, let us run away and hide now! Let us get out of the middle east and leave these poor peaceful, rational and loving people alone! How could we have so "brutally" invaded and "conquered" such a wonderful and innocent country such as Iraq. Things were so good before the evil Americans came. All the Iraqis were happy and living in such peace and tranquility. The Iraqi women never had it so good. Even Saddam liked us and he proved it in so many ways. That damned Bush. He ruined everything and all in the name of oil. Just look how low our gas prices are from all the oil we are stealing from those poor Iraqis. That damn Bush even had that poor soul beheaded. He was under that mask ya know. That tyrant even put womens panties on captured "innocent" Iraqi prisoners' heads, GASP! Not the unspeakable, cruel and unusual PANTY torture. "TORTURE THESE PEOPLE WITH IMPUNITY! LOL!!! So dramatic, give me a break.
Yes, now we must run away! Oh please mean terrorists, we are sooo sorry for having offended thee. Maybe these peaceful loving people of Allah will leave us alone if we just scurry away and hide under some rock. Maybe they will even start to like and accept us. Oh, please I hope so! I so want to be accepted. If not, maybe the honest and forthright Russians, Germans and French can save us damn meddling Americans. Or maybe even the effcient and all powerful United Nations will wave their magic UN wand.
Sigh!!! Just so easy to sit back, blame and criticize, isn't it? Yet, so difficult to actually DO something about it!
Posted by Malpa at May 13, 2004 02:29 AM
I don't think it can be a matter of who is right and wrong, morally superior or inferior, its impossible to get all the sides of the story to even get a clear picture on what is going on. On one hand what an horrific thing to have happen it is tragic. On the other hand I ask what is an american business man doing in a country that is at war? What an incredible risk to take when there are so many safer places to go. And again, the media sures likes to run with stories that perpetuate the view of the barbaric Iraqis to keep the spirit of "protecting the homeland" alive. War by its nature leads to endless tragedies. Innocent people one both sides being sacrificed, barbarous acts happening everywhere. And yet I feel really grateful for all the soldiers who sacrificed themselves for us in WWII, so its hard to condemn war altogether. I think its just really really sad and think how awful for his family to have had this made into a media blitz.
Posted by Bailey at May 13, 2004 04:52 AM
I don't think it can be a matter of who is right and wrong, morally superior or inferior, its impossible to get all the sides of the story to even get a clear picture on what is going on. On one hand what an horrific thing to have happen it is tragic. On the other hand I ask what is an american business man doing in a country that is at war? What an incredible risk to take when there are so many safer places to go. And again, the media sures likes to run with stories that perpetuate the view of the barbaric Iraqis to keep the spirit of "protecting the homeland" alive. War by its nature leads to endless tragedies. Innocent people one both sides being sacrificed, barbarous acts happening everywhere. And yet I feel really grateful for all the soldiers who sacrificed themselves for us in WWII, so its hard to condemn war altogether. I think its just really really sad and think how awful for his family to have had this made into a media blitz.
Posted by Bailey at May 13, 2004 04:53 AM
it is like a man from the camp of intruders has been killed in revenge.
Posted by sohail at May 13, 2004 06:25 AM
If americans stopped truly believing they rule the world we wouldn't have this problem. It is so sad that people will go on dying needlessly because of your greedy government. It looks like bush really has made his mark. Honestly, you american's have the worst taste in politicians. What a shame that you'll probably drag england down with you.
Posted by velouria at May 13, 2004 10:29 AM
I'm so sick and tired of all the whining, jealous, friggin' panzy-ass liberal brats who have forgotten that the U.S. was attacked by a bunch of wack-job neanderthals who follow the teachings of a KNOWN PSYCHOPATHIC PEDEPHILE NAMED "MOHAMMED"!
And you all need to get your damn facts straight!
Nick Berg, God rest his soul, was a true patriot: A hard-working, red-blooded, go-get-er of an American Capitolist who went to Iraq on his own to build a telecommunications business and take advantage of the opportunities.
Problem is, the place is a war-zone, and he knew it, but was willing to take the chance.
The U.S. military OFFERED HIM A FREE PLANE RIDE OUTTA THERE A MONTH AGO, ...and he refused, opting to take another, "safer", route to Kuwait.
He was NOT "detained" by the U.S. military. Why would he be?
He was NOT "kept from leaving" Iraq. He didn't want to leave because he was in the middle of building a business.
He WAS captured by these motherfuckers who cut his head off, as he was travelling along a "safer" route to Kuwait.
It wasn't Bush's, Rumsfeld's, or any other member of the administration's fault, because Nick chose to stay there in harm's way.
These SOBs would have grabbed somebody else, even if they didn't have Abu Mohammed Kreepazoid Wizza-whatever-his-fuckin-name-is to tell them to.
You all need to pull your heads out of your asses, quit the political "Imperialist America" bullshit, and fess up to the fact that these people are NOT human, we ARE better than them, and they need to be removed from the earth before they decide to pick on the Chinese, or Indians, or whoever they all of a sudden don't like!
Posted by Barry at May 13, 2004 11:35 AM
Ah, yes... If the masked man, holding a knife, said it... It HAS TO BE TRUE! These people are taught from the time they are out of the womb to hate. We are at war with a group who hold no value of truth or life. It still amazes me that some believe EVERYTHING they see, hear, or read.
While his death is so tragic, Nick Berg took it upon himself to go there and try to make a difference. He had a chance to leave, but his choice to stay was just that, HIS CHOICE!!
Posted by Emerson at May 13, 2004 12:20 PM
Excuse me, but "these people who attacked us" were not Iraqi. In fact, every indication we have is that the secular Saddam Hussein and the religious nut OBL despised each other, and contrary to the deliberate impression created by the President (which HE has disabused everyone of, even if Cheney insists on repeating it), no links between Iraq and September 11th (AT WHICH TIME I WAS AT A POINT 100 YARDS FROM GROUND ZERO, AS I AM AT THIS MOMENT, BTW, AND YOU "CONSERVATIVE, "Patriotic" FOLKS" WERE AND ARE, DOUBTLESS NOT).
So-- we have chosen a country that had nothing to do with 9-11 to attack, and have no taken it upon ourselves to abuse its citizens.
I have no idea why Mr. Berg was in Iraq at all, as if it mattered. Just picture yourselves in the pictures of the Iraqis: a foreign force has launched missiles at you (as it has since 1991), invaded you, allowed anarchy to rein while providing nowhere near the manpower needed for an effective secure occupation, gratuitously dragged your citizens off the streets (60-90% of whom were COMPLETELY INNOCENT), abused, tortured, and occasionally KILLED them, placed puppets who you regard as criminals, Quislings and traitors as a "governing council", spurned your influential leaders who have demanded elections, lectured you on how much GOOD they are doing you by "imposing democracy" (without elections) at the barrel of a gun, and THEN invites its "businessmen" to come in and profit from doing business with what's left of your country? How do you think you'd react when you saw one of these "businessmen" on your streets? Berg's brutal, senseless murder cannot be justified. But it can certainly be understood-- and had damned well BETTER BE if we are to avoid seeing more of it.
Kindly stop seeing the Iraqis as swarthy A-rab terrorist THEMS, and realize that they too are human beings, with individual and national pride. We all seem to have forgotten all that, getting a great many of our bravest people killed in the process.
Posted by the talking dog at May 13, 2004 01:16 PM
Thank you TD, but I fear your words fall on deaf ears. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard "Let's bomb them all" from friend and foe alike...the common denominator being their support for Bush. (No, it isn't anger over 9/11....we are ALL angry over that horrific day) Questioning the actions of 9/11 and looking for the motivation behind the madness is for the weak. So, we march on into war with our anger and ingnorance, hand in hand, and wonder why things aren't going so well. I'm depressed and saddened by this whole debate.
Posted by alicia at May 13, 2004 02:41 PM
My step father-in- law escaped Baghdad 25 years ago with his sister. Remember, Dog... the borders were closed. Their flee to Kuwait was fraught with danger every step of the way. They came from a family of 12 children... all children;except one, now safely in other parts of the world. They celebrate the day of Baghdad's occupation as their Independence Day.
Twenty five years of closed borders. Twenty five years of suffering terror at the hands of Hussein. No words to be spoken against him... or you would disappear. Of course, these people were found.. in the mass graves we've dug up over there.
You are naieve, Dog, Saddam was on the hit list long before 9/11. Assassins hands were stayed though. Why? Because there was someone even more crazier than him ready to take his spot.... his son. Remove the rabid dog and there's a rabid, cunning, even more viscious wolf to replace the dog.
Our occupation in Iraq is not a response to 9/11. It IS about terrorists and it's about OIL. The world would be crazy to let maniacs continue to control our most valuable resource. That control needs to be in the hands of sane, responsible, leaders.
And just what do you see as an effective way to secure Iraq? The protocol is to get the wolves and spare the sheep. We get the wolves by gathering intelligence. War fact: prisoners are subjected to interrogation. Sorry, but "Could you please tell me... " just doesn't work and to a crazy Arab, the threat of torture or death doesn't work either...why they have Heaven and 72 virgins waiting for them!
How sick and twisted is that? So what "does" work with them? Humiliation and degradation by what they consider to be the lowest of lows. Women and dogs. I'm sure you can bet your last dollar that OUR prisoners over there would be happy and relieved if their captors used these tactics instead of physical torture and death.
Forget about Americans, Arabs, Afghanis, Pakistanis, Serbs, S. Koreans etc.... drop all those delineations and what do you have... Mankind. Darwin had it right, 'Survival of the fittest to propogate more of like kind to carry on the species.' Wolves or sheep... which would you rather live with?
Posted by Bishopsqueen at May 13, 2004 03:23 PM
I tend to agree most with Alicia. She is totally right in the way she worded all that. We need to stop pissin and moaning about the "atrocities" we commit on Iraqi Prisoners. Did you not all forget that these are the guys sending our soldiers home in body bags. The same people that drug civilian contractors through the streets and hung them from a bridge. But Oh nevermind that right? They still have to be treated like the human beings they are. WHAT THE FUCK!!! They execute civilian targets and we have women order them around and challenge ther sexuallality and then were the bad guys commiting war crimes. Let us all not forget that we are at war. Do whatever is neccesary to get the SOB that is respoinsible. But you fuckers would rather sit here and point fingers at all the mistakes made rather than try to come up with a resonable solution. It is totally like Alicia said "You are all Naive." every day I wake up I am thankful there are not fucks like you running this country.
Cid
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I fucked up I DO NOT!!!! agree with alicia. I agree with Bishop Queen. All qoutes directed toward Alicia aremeant for bishop Queen
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Phew!
Posted by alicia at May 13, 2004 06:37 PM
They gave 35 years to Saddam Hussien and they can't give 2 or 3 years to coalition force to fix the damn country. It is going back to Osama's boys! Osama is a satan! Whereever he goes there will be chaos and deads. There will be no 72 virgins for all these bastards! More like 72 GOATS for them to F@ck with (no offense to all good muslin people, just the bad one)!
I don't know what kind of religion these guys are learning or following. If they are doing the right thing for god or country why are they wearing a skimask? If you know you're doing a right thing no need to hide yourself dumbass.
Also those MP's that committed those sick ass shit in prison! Also need to be bring to justice! Those men and women that died in iraq were just for their sick ass entertainment! WHAT A WASTE!
Posted by Kaneda at May 13, 2004 10:18 PM
We are like "satans," too, now that we have behaved so badly toward Iraqi prisoners. (Chief Sitting this One Out, I do not include Native Americans in the group of "we." Though, you must be thinking "what else is new" when you read of our brutality.)
Posted by dog 2 at May 14, 2004 05:42 PM
Malpa:
Specialist Sivits' sworn testimony, quoted below -- and found in today's NY Times -- all sounds a lot worse than the "cruel and unusual panty torture."
"Staff Sergeant Frederick would take the hand of the detainee and put it on the detainee's penis, and make the detainee's hand go back and forth, as if masturbating. He did this to about three of the detainees before one of them did it right."
After five minutes, they told him to stop. Specialist Graner then had them pose against the wall, and made one kneel in front of the other, Specialist Sivits said, "So that from behind the detainee that was kneeling, it would look like the detainee kneeling had the penis of the detainee standing in his mouth, but he did not.`
The evening was not an isolated case of violence, Specialist Sivits said. He described another night when a dog was set upon a detainee, and another when a detainee was handcuffed to a bed.
"Graner was in the room with him," he said. "This detainee had wounds on his legs from where he had been shot with the buckshot." Specialist Graner, he said, would "strike the detainee with a half baseball swing, and hit the wounds of the detainee. There is no doubt that this hurt the detainee because he would scream he got hit. The detainee would beg Graner to stop by saying `Mister, Mister, please stop,' or words to that effect."
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